Finding Your Community — Inside and Out — with James Ochoa
In this episode, we welcome James Ochoa, a counselor, coach, mentor, and intuitionist who has been helping adults with ADHD for over thirty years. James shares his insights on the importance of community in our ADHD journey and updates us on his upcoming book, "When the Shiny Wears Off: Navigating the Lifetime Storms of Adult ADHD."
We discuss the value of being part of a community and what it means to belong to a group of people who understand what you experience every day. We also explore the benefits of joining a community, such as personal growth, a sense of belonging, new friendships, learning new things, and practicing interpersonal skills.
James emphasizes the importance of recognizing that our motives for joining a new group or community are not always altruistic and that we only have so much extra time to share. Most importantly, he walks us through the power of developing your internal support group, using creative visualization to create your community in times of need.
In conclusion, James reminds us that being part of a community is crucial in our ADHD journey. It can provide us with a sense of belonging and help us grow personally. Thank you for joining us in this episode, and we hope you find it insightful and helpful in your own ADHD journey.
Links & Notes
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Pete Wright:
Hello everybody and welcome to Taking Control, the ADHD podcast on TruStory FM. I'm Pete Wright and I'm here with Nikki Kinzer.
Nikki Kinzer:
Hello everyone. Hello, Pete Wright.
Pete Wright:
Oh, hi, Nikki.
Nikki Kinzer:
Oh, hi.
Pete Wright:
Happy ADHD Awareness Month. Are you still aware?
Nikki Kinzer:
I'm still aware.
Pete Wright:
Oh, delightful. Oh, me too. I'm very excited. As we record this, we've got our first Open Community Coffee with Pete coming up this Friday. I'm very excited about it. By the time this show goes live, you'll have missed it already, but it's really exciting. So, listen to all the emails that are coming because we're doing lots of good stuff this October and we're very excited to do more of it in public, out loud.
Nikki Kinzer:
Out loud.
Pete Wright:
Out from behind the gate, the velvet curtain. Oh, so many metaphors. Do you have any news for the...
Nikki Kinzer:
No. No news.
Pete Wright:
How are you feeling?
Nikki Kinzer:
I'm feeling great.
Pete Wright:
Yeah?
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah.
Pete Wright:
All right.
Nikki Kinzer:
You're questioning me.
Pete Wright:
I guess, yeah, I guess I am.
Nikki Kinzer:
You're starting to say something else.
Pete Wright:
I don't know what to expect. Anyhow, speaking of ADHD Awareness Month, by the time you're listening to this episode, October is coming to a close, but we do just want to take a second to thank a few people. First, to all of our past guests and friends of TCA, a big thank you for your giveaway donations. We've been donating throughout the entire month. That's been super exciting. We also have to thank everybody on Team TCA without whom none of this would be possible.
And finally, of course, to everyone in this community, a giant thank you to all of you. Thanks to everyone for taking part in this month's activities. We hope you've enjoyed connecting with us, and of course, each other in the taking control Discord server. If you'd like to continue to participate in these weekly and monthly events like our Accountability Anchor Sessions and Coffee with Pete and Coaching with Nikki, please consider becoming a Patreon member at patreon.com/theadhdpodcast. We sure appreciate you for even thinking about it.
This week's episode is brought to you by TextExpander, one of the best invisible tools in my tech tool chest. Here's how it works. If there's a piece of text that I type more than once, that's a signal that I need to add it to TextExpander. I keep my most used emails, phrases, text messages, URLs, and more right in my text expander library. Now, a snippet can include text links, images, code, account numbers, phone numbers, addresses, whatever you want. The trick is, for each one of those snippets in my library, I assign a unique abbreviation, then, I expand it. I can deploy the content I need with just a few keystrokes on any device across any apps I use. Just type the abbreviation for the snippet I'm looking for, and boom, text expanded.
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So, if you haven't updated the extension yet and you already have it installed, or if you just want to get it in your Chrome, head over to the Chrome Web store and get it installed today, it's fantastic. With TextExpander, it's all so easy. Also available on Mac and Windows and iPhone and iPad. And for listeners of the ADHD podcast, you can get 20% off your first year of service. Just visit takecontrol adhd.com/textexpander, and you'll be whisked over to our page on their site where you can get started. Again. If you get started now, you'll save 20% off your subscription for that first year. The way we work is changing rapidly, make work work the way your brain works by saying more in less time, and with less effort using TextExpander. Our great thanks to the TextExpander team for sponsoring the ADHD podcast. And now, let's get on with the show. Welcome back, Taking Control Hall of Famer, James Ochoa for appearance number nine.
Nikki Kinzer:
Whoo!
Pete Wright:
Nuevo. Now, for over 30 years, James Ochoa has combined counseling, coaching, mentoring, and intuition to help adults with ADHD live meaningful lives. He's the originator of one of our favorite concepts, Helping Us to Calm the Storms of Adult ADHD, and he's here to talk to us about the power of community in our ADHD journey, and of course, to give us an update on his next book, When the Shiny Wears Off, Navigating the Lifetime Storms of Adult ADHD. That's right, we remember, it's coming, that focuses on how to handle chronic stress of ADHD. James, welcome back, old friend.
James Ochoa:
I tell you. It's a great welcome and I'm just a thrill to be here, and nine times, that's pretty amazing. I could start the show with something strange and weird because I don't know if people know I actually have nine fingers. Actually, I lost a finger.
Pete Wright:
That's right.
James Ochoa:
Many, many years ago.
Pete Wright:
Oh, because you brought it up, how did you lose the finger?
James Ochoa:
Yes, obviously I'm very comfortable with it now. I was wearing a ring, a college graduation ring, and it was a construction accident. So, not much fun.
Pete Wright:
Oh.
James Ochoa:
Not much fun.
Pete Wright:
No way. That sounds [inaudible 00:06:14].
Nikki Kinzer:
No.
James Ochoa:
That happened when I was 22 years old. It was 40 years ago. It's amazing to me that it's interesting. I lost 11 pounds of grip strength in my right hand. These two are your grip strength. These are the ones you don't want to lose. And it was a great turning point in life.
Pete Wright:
Fascinating.
James Ochoa:
That's actually one of my major turning points toward counseling. It was like, "Okay, I think it's time to go be a counselor. I'm not very good on the construction site."
Pete Wright:
Yeah. Oh, I did not expect that to be...
Nikki Kinzer:
Red flag. This isn't working for me.
Pete Wright:
Yes, that is a hard life turned. I expected it to be like, I have to overcome this internal trauma about losing the finger and what it has done to my life. And instead it's, "No, I'm not very good with a hammer."
James Ochoa:
No, I'm very good. I'm heading out of here. This is not...
Pete Wright:
Yeah, that was smart.
James Ochoa:
Yeah, it was like, "It's not good to lose body parts." So anyway, it's funny because I'm thinking nine, whenever I think of nine people are, and it's always funny as an ADHD therapist, right? When you work with people with ADHD and I'm in my office moving my hands, I can tell when people notice because they do, their head goes back a couple of times. It's like, "Oh, you noticed I'm missing a finger." It's nothing to me now. It's just a funny thing. I cannot hold change. I cannot clap in this hand because you need a...
Nikki Kinzer:
Oh, yeah.
James Ochoa:
It's flat.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, you need something.
James Ochoa:
So those are the two pieces of disability I think I came away with is not being able to hold change and clap. I'll be okay. I'm good.
Nikki Kinzer:
That's [inaudible 00:07:37].
James Ochoa:
So, there's a personal story to start our day off.
Nikki Kinzer:
I like it.
Pete Wright:
We like your nine fingers, all 10 worth, James.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yes.
Pete Wright:
All right.
James Ochoa:
Yes.
Pete Wright:
Nikki, set us up please.
Nikki Kinzer:
All month long, we've been focusing on the importance of joining and belonging a community. We've explored how to find a community to connect with, defining or redefining yourself within a community. Talked a lot about reasons why people might shy away. We talked with Dr. Sharon Saline around some of those topics of why people might be a little bit anxious around the social anxiety piece of joining a community. So, I know, I experienced a community with you, James, in the spring. I think it was spring.
James Ochoa:
It was, it was, yeah.
Nikki Kinzer:
I'm pretty sure it was. Yes, yes, where you have a group of people that come together. So, what are your thoughts about being connected with a group of people?
James Ochoa:
Well, it's an enormously important topic, and I'm so glad you all taken the month to extrapolate it and pull it apart, because I believe that, I see and I personally want to move in what I would consider as an evolution in the space of ADHD that's beyond strategies, that's beyond medication, that's beyond organization. All those things are critically important. They're foundational features. But to get into the long-term nature of what ADHD is as a diagnosis, but as a neurology and a development and a long-term space, community is a part of that. Community is that long-term space of how I connect with others and how they connect with me.
And so, that's exactly where my entire perspective is headed. I'm 62, I think I'll be in this game at least another 20, it could be 30 years. I mean, God willing, I'm having fun still. So, who knows what ADD will look like in 20 years here. We won't even want to talk about that. But the reality is that community is critically important as a nature of connection between us and it's a core space of who we are that builds what we're going to term as internal safety. And internal safety is something we're all born with as infants and that we have naturally growing up. We don't turn on our survival instinct and start our responses unless there's a reason to. And so, we're curious. We're observing the world, we're feeling the world. That's what we're doing.
And so, to me, community starts two places. One, it starts externally and how we were cared for, but two, it starts internally on how I oriented to my sensations, feeling states, thoughts, all these things. Well, if you layer ADD into this space and you started to feel different early on in your life and not knowing why, those differences start to tumble and your community starts to potentially fracture or not get developed as well as it could.
And that's why it's so critically important, particularly in childhood, to normalize the space of what ADHD is or isn't along the lines of hair color, height, and weight. This is just who you are. There's nothing wrong or broken, and these are the assistance, you need this. And so, I work with that with parents for years, and now I'm working with adults on an ongoing basis. So, community to me starts with the sense of safety. It starts with that sense of am I belonging?
And I could talk for days on the emotional and mental stress that spins off of not having community or that being fractured or that being really splintered in some ways. So, I think it's external community, how we connect with others, relationships, interests, those kinds of things. But it's as important to talk about your own internal community with yourself. I'm a big imagination guy. So, I'm like, okay.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yes, you are.
James Ochoa:
Who are your mental support group people? Who do you see in your mind's eye? Or who are the mentors that you really keep up with that keeps you resourced? So, community, resourcing, mindfulness, these are all my big, big hunts right now for people with ADHD who really have to learn to normalize the idea that they need to resource, they need to have community on an ongoing basis, and it's tragic if we don't.
Nikki Kinzer:
I want us to circle back to the mental support group because when we were talking about what we wanted to talk to you about, that was what came out of me is like, "Oh, he can talk about this. This is something that he writes in his book." And it really connects with what we're talking about with the external community.
James Ochoa:
Yes, right.
Nikki Kinzer:
So, tell our audience a little bit more about what this mental support group is.
James Ochoa:
So, first of all, we look at the ideas of using your imagination. So, this is all, everything's in your mind's eye. And I want to preface this with that. I'm very well aware that there are many, that I've become aware of that, I have a blind eye to their imagination. They cannot see things in their imagination. Aphantasia is a space of not having that eye. And so, for those who have aphantasia, you can't see things in their imagination or conceptualize them. They have to use feeling states, they have to use pictures, they have to use other sensations, but they can get to that space.
So, you're using your imagination. And in this case, we're talking about a mental support group or people, ideas of who you think would support you. And this could be family, it could be relatives, it could be mentors that you've never met before. I talk about in my book, someone in my mental support group is Deepak Chopra. I've never met Deepak Chopra. Maybe, one day, he'll hear your podcast, Nikki, and he'll go, "Oh, interesting." [inaudible 00:13:46]. I've never met him.
Nikki Kinzer:
I want to be on that.
James Ochoa:
Yeah. Maybe he'll invite me and maybe we'll be here together. So, Deepak Chopra is someone who I really relate to based on mindfulness, based on neuroscience, based on who he is as a science or a doctor and the ideas of science and research, but just how he carries himself. So, what do I do in my mental support group with Deepak Chopra? I could talk to him from a comforting point of view about mindfulness or stresses that I'm having, and I can hear his Indian accent and how he's calmly telling me to, "Things are going to be okay." Or "Those are great ideas, stick with them. I've had challenges in my life," because he's very authentic too.
So, what am I doing? I'm using, in this case, Deepak Chopra to mirror image back to me the things that I need and I'm ultimately what, relating with myself. This is a mirror through someone else back to myself. Well, I go back to that sense of internal safety. That's what gets built here. So, I probably have 17 or 18 in my mental support group. Now, go figure. Mr. Hyperactive guy here. I have lots of people in my mental support group, and I've had great spiritual experiences from a sense of meaningfulness of how they help support me in my life. And it doesn't have to be just people.
I've had people use, some woman who [inaudible 00:15:18], what is it, 3000-year old redwood tree in California that's got, I don't know, 700 species of animals in it. And that was her mental support group person. So, she related to nature and trees. It's her imagination. This isn't schizophrenic, it's not crazy. It's not weird. It's just real. It's a way to relate to yourself. I really want to take this idea of imagination and thinking of things in our mind as strange or weird or something's wrong with it. It's one of the most powerful tools we have in our brain, without a doubt.
Pete Wright:
It's interesting that you bring it up, only because when we're talking about community, one of the things that I've been thinking about of late is this idea of social optimism versus social pessimism, right? Because I think one of the things that we deal with ADHD is for those of us who sort of grew up in our formative social years challenged with ADHD, that judgment lingers large.
James Ochoa:
That's right. Oh, yes.
Pete Wright:
It's a long shadow we're trying to get up from under. And that can lead to a bit of social pessimism and anxiety around making friends and having viable relationships with a community that is marred by fear, uncertainty, and doubt.
James Ochoa:
Yes.
Pete Wright:
And I can imagine even your mental support group, it'd be pretty easy for you to start using some real negative self-talk around the voices that you're listening to.
James Ochoa:
Well, okay, and that's a really important point, Pete, because when we're talking about imagination, one of the things that you set up in the ideas of, let's also talk about an emotional safe place, a place that you can go in your mind's eye that's completely safe for you is you're setting up boundaries of safety mentally in your own mind's eye. So, if things turn in a space that's negative or feels negative to you, that's more of a, "Oh, I'm going to go get a mental support person who negates that, who can counteract this." Because I see those as, there's a term I have called mental energy leaks, which is where our mental energy collides into other things that we don't want it to.
Negative voices being one of those mental energy leaks that we have to work at managing, because what is that space of pessimism or negativity? It's a limbic system in the center of the brain, overactive. It's a threat response. It's a stress related response. So, if I know that immediately, then how do I go about calming it? Okay, I don't think I've said this. You always get these first from me naturally because I don't think I've talked about this. I did, back in 2008, if you talk about stress and the limbic system being too activated, I did strategic therapeutic daydreaming. That's what I use as a term that says I'm going to go into my mind's imagination, into my support group, into my emotional safe place on purpose and just go hang out and experience.
Well, I was having lots of stress in 2008 trying to figure out the conundrums of ADD still. I went back into what I considered as my survival instinct, and I took a little daydream and I visited fight, flight, and freeze. All right, these are our survival instinct. And so, in my cartoon imagination, I went up to fight, flight and freeze, and there are these little guys in chairs pulling levers, overstress, just sweating. And I'm like, "Guys, what's going on here?" And they're like, "You are running us off a cliff all the time. You're so hyperactive, you're so impulsive."
So, what I did in that space was relating to myself. So, in talking to them, I'm like, "Okay, guys, what do you need? What do you need help with? What do you need support with?" You'll appreciate this, Pete. They're all like, "We want shiny suits. We want something to look really special. We want the best gaming chairs there are." What am I doing here and going to talk to myself and my survival instinct. It's a mental gymnastic. I'm doing a flip in my own mind to calm down my limbic system.
So, hopefully, negative voices, things of that nature become less significant or disruptive because I build a relationship with myself. Now, I've opened up some interesting chasms today and things like this, but I do those kinds of things because that imagination resources me, it helps me to center myself. And there's lots of ways to counteract that negativity.
Pete Wright:
Sure. And just the act of visualizing those sorts of relationships pays incredible dividends when it comes to facing your own terrestrial social anxiety and building your resources in flesh blood.
James Ochoa:
Exactly. So, going into a social situation, I could take someone from my mental support group who is supporting me, who is riding on my shoulder, so to speak, or is like, you're okay with this, and it's okay. It's those conversations with ourselves that I don't know, we still pathologize too much or we say there's something wrong with them versus something right with them that that's one of the healthiest things you can do is have an ongoing dynamic conversation with yourself in a meaningful way. We just do not do that very well, in my opinion, from a mental health point of view.
Pete Wright:
I don't want to linger on social pessimism, but it's something that I think comes up and I'm eager to get your thoughts on it. This idea that I've got people in my own family who feel this way, who have aligned their perception of their introversion, extroversion, their place on that scale with their need or lack of need of community or friendships. And I have enough friends. I can only maintain a single best friend or two good friends. I can't handle any more than that. What's your take on folks in that position? I mean, I'm kind of trying to be sort of judgment free because I know I have some close relationships. I try to have more, but...
James Ochoa:
Well, but when we're talking about introversion, extroversion, we're talking about the need for social connection or community with others or connection with others.
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
James Ochoa:
I do think there is a personal profile everyone has on the ability, the desire to want to connect to others. Am I energized? Am I not? Do I feel better in resourcing myself as an introvert or being away from that? But I think this is where COVID completely changed things from a social muscle point of view because it put us all in prison, in my opinion. We had the mentality that we were limited in our freedom at some level, and that feels like a prison to anyone who's in that space. It doesn't matter your circumstances mentally. We all went through this stress, but we now have an orientation that says we have a social muscle. It's like, "Okay, do I want to be out there? Do I not want to be out there?"
So, I believe though the core space is we are interrelated beings. We connect to each other, and that's how we survive. That is, we are not a soul surviving species. We are group surviving species that connects with one another. So, your introversion, extroversion, I think that it's a personal profile that you look at, how much do I need? What do I get from it? But so much of that is built out of old history anxieties, really negative talk or things that didn't go well. So, I'm a big proponent of setting yourself up for success through common interest, meetup groups, go and do things on the periphery socially, but be around people in a way that works for you, that is meaningful, that gives you some sense of self.
And I do find people who prefer to be quiet or by themselves. But if you ask them in a mentally healthy state, they have community in their own mind's eye or they have community with a church group or a social group when they want to, there's nothing off with that. Does that make sense or is that some...
Nikki Kinzer:
No, I think it makes a lot of sense to me because I think you just described me, honestly. Because I know that I am probably more introverted and I get my restoration from being alone. And so, I see that about myself, and it takes a lot of energy for me to do a lot of small talk, like at a party. So, I know, and it's this complete opposite for my husband, and he thrives on that, but I kind of know what my limit is. I know how long I might want to stay there. I know that I can leave if I want to. I know who I want to invest more time in, and I'm okay with saying no to things that I don't have the mental energy to take on at this point. But you're right, there is still a very much a sense of community. It's just that I also am totally fine being by myself.
James Ochoa:
Yeah, yeah. Now, even me, Mr. Hyperactive, in a lot of ways, I resource by myself very effectively now. I really relish my time alone and in my own personal way of reading a book or just listening to the breeze outside. And that has been a lot of practice mindfulness, and that's a real core component of ADHD and why I think in the ideas of community respecting the mindfulness space that people need or what their boundaries are, being aware of them, all those things are critically important for us.
Nikki Kinzer:
Well, and I love that you said this a few times. It's a safe environment. It's a safe community. And I think that in my coaching groups and my membership and where I see the community with our ADHD community, it is a safe place. And I think that that's what gives them, well, for example, there was somebody that came in late to one of our GPS sessions and they started to apologize. I'm like, "You do not need to apologize. There's no apologizing in GPS. You're here. This is great. We're happy you're here." And he made a comment saying, "Wow, I wish everyone would say that."
James Ochoa:
Right.
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Nikki Kinzer:
So, I think it is just giving them that safe space that it's okay that other people get it. I don't have to apologize and they understand.
James Ochoa:
Yeah, yeah. Right. And it's turning those tables as well, Nikki, and giving them acceptance in that space to also give it to themselves so that he can walk into a situation and know that, "I'm okay, I'm a little bit late, but I accept that responsibility." And I don't think we really ongoingly want to support people in that internal development because that's where all the dark spots lie. That's where all the fears are is when we get away from it and that's when the crazies happen. And I think that, so I can't speak enough of there is external support and all that validation is necessary. The internal space, I still think on the ADHD spectrum, I am after that hunt as really one of the most critical factors beyond all the functional daily strategy needs, understanding about what it is.
We've got to keep talking about the mental and emotional stress that's involved in individuals and how they handle it when they're not with others. It's just, I'm again, a single person in Austin, Texas. I'll never have a big center. That's just never who I'm, but I've even envisioned a season three could happen, folks. Complex.
Pete Wright:
I'll believe it when I see it, you, big talker.
James Ochoa:
I know. Good, good, good. It could be a couple of years, but it sure would be fun. It sure would be fun because as those are community pieces.
Pete Wright:
Well, they are community pieces. And I think that's a really important note. And I want to pivot back to COVID, just a bit, because it's something we hear all the time. Just the way we changed through lockdown that we started and we were one sort of person, and we came out, we are another sort of person. I'm curious if you have ever plumbed the depths of potential positive things that might have come out with just being challenged to explore this part of our identity that was sort of unlocked by the force of nature.
James Ochoa:
Yes. So yes, as an exploratory quester of interesting, neurological, imaginary kind of spaces, those kinds of things. Actually, yes, I took on COVID in that perspective. I did deep dives into myself based on resourcing and how is this helping me? What bandwidth that I really believe I've got a lot of strength and resilience from that time because I was conscious, I had my eyes open, I knew what was going on, and I kept having visions of being able to get through it. I started a book club at the beginning of COVID for support with other people. I did things actively to start that community process that...
Pete Wright:
That you would not be doing otherwise.
James Ochoa:
I don't think I would've ever done something like that. But the abject, so when we're hit with a survivalist need like that, right?
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
James Ochoa:
How does someone go toward thriving, something that's going to help benefit me here? And when does someone just go into survival instinct and they feel like they're just barely hanging on? I really think it comes back to internal resource. How strong are you in yourself to be able to look at difficulty, darkness, strain, and stress with a positive outlook? With an outlook that says, I can find a way through this. This is where I changed the ideas of myself as an ADHD pathfinder to help people find pathways through their ADHD.
Because there's a term I have, Pete, that I call functional pressure. Functional pressure is how do I consciously put pressure on myself in a way that's meaningful, getting things done, organization, follow through. But in this case, how do I put enough pressure, because the body responds to pressure if it's not too much. We have pressure all the time, expectations, obligations, relationship. So, we want to have that kind of resilient knowledge. And this is where, okay, so I've done deep diving, into breathing and cold-water techniques and all these other pieces for resourcing my body, and I think it's because you can really gain strength from that.
So, with COVID, what did we get from it? I think we became stronger if you remain conscious throughout it and didn't feel like a victim the entire time, and that you were being just lambasted from 10,000 different ways. Now, we all went through grief. I knew people who died very close to me, no fun. And so, that was the reality of the situation, it's still is to some degree.
Pete Wright:
Right.
James Ochoa:
So, I don't know, but that's how you do it. You really have to be resilient in that space.
Pete Wright:
Well, and I think you just hit it that this whole idea, and I want to connect it back to community.
James Ochoa:
Sure.
Pete Wright:
That in fact, the community that comes out of something like the stress of COVID is a different sort of community than you might be just maybe taking for granted in your day-to-day without that experience. And so, I think it is sort of important that we take the time now that years have passed to reflect on who we did become as a result of COVID. I'm a different person than I was before that. I'm a different person than before. Dad died from it. I'm a different person as a result of the grief and the people and the resources that I called upon to help me through that piece. I would not have done it the way that I did it, were it not for the societal stresses that we're under. And weirdly, I don't think I've ever said it out loud, I'm grateful for it.
James Ochoa:
Yeah, yeah.
Pete Wright:
That's a big thing.
James Ochoa:
Yes. And that's a turning point for you personally. But for many people to be able to say, "Okay, I get the depth that I've created as a result of it, and I'm not glad that it happened. I'm grateful that I've learned from it." What I've chosen, no one's necessarily going to choose that kind of pain, but you can find gratitude. So, appreciation and gratitude, the other elixirs of life.
Pete Wright:
Yes.
James Ochoa:
And by the way, I tell my ADHD couples, if you're looking for the one key element in a relationship, particularly around ADHD, but in any relationship is where's your appreciation gratitude meter? How much are you appreciative and grateful for each other ongoing in a real overt way? As I've said, I've never had a couple who's come in and said, "Okay, I've been appreciated too much. Too much gratitude here. Stop doing that."
Pete Wright:
I'm too grateful.
Nikki Kinzer:
They're too nice, too kind. Too...yeah.
James Ochoa:
It's like, no. And when I hit that meter, the couples don't come back because they're happy with each other.
Nikki Kinzer:
Right.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, yeah.
James Ochoa:
So, appreciation and gratitude, as you're talking about, Pete, that's a really important threshold. But it allows, we do that with ADD, it's critically important to be able to look at what ADD is or isn't. And with community, it's critically important because it validates your experience.
Pete Wright:
Yes.
James Ochoa:
You witness yourself in others and getting better. And this is why your GPS sessions and all the coaching pieces, and I'm going to make a Coffee with Pete at some point here. That's just too much fun. Don't drink coffee anymore, but I will make a coffee with Pete with [inaudible 00:34:15].
Pete Wright:
That's okay. We accept tea drinkers.
James Ochoa:
Okay. Okay, that's good. A great herbal tea.
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
James Ochoa:
But no, those are critically pieces. This is why I started the ADHD Town Hall last spring you were referring to, it's in its fourth season. Getting ready to start this month. And it's a blast. It's just the funniest thing I do because I want to help people connect to themselves and connect to others so that we normalize what's happening here.
Nikki Kinzer:
Validation. I'm stuck on that word just as soon as you said it, because it is so important, isn't it? To feel like your feelings are validated. And I think when you're in a group with a group of people who understand and get where you're coming from, that automatically validates it. And I think it also just makes you feel better that you're not the only one thinking this.
James Ochoa:
Yep, yep, yep.
Nikki Kinzer:
And that I'm not the only one that it's happening to.
James Ochoa:
Right. Well, and we can circle back to safety there, because seeing yourself through and in others and in that self of seeing yourself through and in others, and they're struggling or having the same feelings I have. Now, there's a community of comradery of connection. I'm not alone. And as soon as I'm not alone, here's the interrelated beingness that we're connected to others. We need to be connected to others. We know from orphaned children that not having that physical touch or connection with others is horribly disruptive to the development of the brain and socialization and those kinds of things.
But it's just an ongoing, I'm so glad you brought up on community this month because I always do, like the oxymoron of ADHD awareness. My point of awareness is one of our greatest challenges. I'm like, "Okay, we could have caught it a difference, something different."
Pete Wright:
Yeah, right.
James Ochoa:
ADHD celebration month.
Nikki Kinzer:
Right, right.
Pete Wright:
I want to turn the tables just a little bit as we kind of lean toward the sunset of our conversation today, and that is, it's easy for me to continue to be considerate of what I'm getting out of my communities and what I'm asking for from my communities and my involvement in it, but that can over time feel like a selfish act. And if I am going to be a good member of a community, whether it's my D&D group or my church group or my whatever group it is, or my online group, part of what community is what I put back into it. How do you talk about being a good community member, particularly in a time of strife?
James Ochoa:
The first thing I say, there is a statement that says, when we give to others, it's a universal fact that we always get back more than we have given. Either through appreciation, gratitude, connection, kindness, all these pieces. So, the idea that I'm in a community and I feel like I have to constantly ask for my needs to be met, but not to give to others, it's an unbalanced equation and you'll feel it. The individual feels it. And so, I love community where there is camaraderie built into it, meaning we are all doing things together. We're helping each other out. Everyone is looking at their resources or how they can be a part of.
And so, someone who comes in that space that they have overt needs or their needs are greater than what they can give, yet that's a process of filling up a cup to where then they're looking at their talents. How do they give back to that community? But I just think it's a two-way street all the time. And those who feel like they're constantly just taking from a community missing half the equation because they don't realize what they would get back by giving to others. And I think that, like I said, if you have systems built within communities, so that camaraderie or the give back is a part of the community, it changes the perspective because everyone understands what the expectations or the rules or the agreements are. And I think that that helps a lot.
Pete Wright:
I was browsing doing some research for another episode, and I ran into this quote, speaking of the trope, the glass is half full, it's always full of something. And this is Philippe Cross who says, "In my case, my view is, of course, there is only one possibility, that glass is actually always full. It is part full of air, the other part with liquid, but it is always full." And that just warmed my heart this morning. When you think about the balance of what you give and what you have to offer, your sort of community, your support group when contrasted with what you are taking from it as a result to keep yourself healthy and strong and connected.
James Ochoa:
And this is also where when you think about just being in a community and being present and sharing your story courageously, it's a part of giving to others. That's one of the things we have to realize that, that vulnerability is important because that's how others open up and feel validated and feel connected with. And so, authenticity is a big part of community and really allowing people to be the unique individual selves that they can be. And it's one of the things I really feel healthy about is having gotten to that space that I really am, I'm just who I am in my community. When I go to talks and do speeches or trainings, you're seeing who is this, who I am now. And that's who I am on watching a baseball game. It's like...
Pete Wright:
How long did it take you to get there?
James Ochoa:
Too many years.
Pete Wright:
That's kind of the answer I was vibing. Me too, man. Me too.
James Ochoa:
It does. And it's an evolution, right? It's a honing, but I do think that it can happen sooner for individuals with the validation process and what we know around ADHD. It happens sooner because to me, what we know about it, I look at my son, I look at now, he's a mentee, someone named Colin in California that I talk with. And one of those were raised in very supportive ADHD environments. Not that they don't have storms and challenges.
Pete Wright:
Sure.
James Ochoa:
But they just like who they are and they feel good about who they're, they're able to give back. And so, I think it starts from the bottom. I did a parenting talk for a great dyslexia school up in Seattle, not Ross and Saunders, that's in Austin, Hamlin Robinson up in Seattle. That is still getting a lot of airplay on ADHD and parenting. And that's something you could put in the show notes if you want to, but it's a really good way for parents to think about ADHD and how to help kids be supportive in understanding who and what they are.
Nikki Kinzer:
This is great.
Pete Wright:
It is great.
Nikki Kinzer:
Thank you.
Pete Wright:
Let's talk about your, I mean, here we are talking about community and we already teased it. There you go. Creating your own community. Tell us what's next with the ADHD Town Hall group.
James Ochoa:
So, we kick off this Thursday for our six-week interactive virtual webinar. I'll open the topic up each week. And the interesting part is, yes, I am keeping the same six topics every year because it's those six areas, whether it's chasing your shinies is how I've named it this year, or understanding your emotional patterns. We talk about the things that are most difficult within the ADHD space, but it's an interactive community. So now, I've invited in therapists to come and watch and be a part of the community. We have spouses, we have coworkers, we have people diagnosed because that's a true Town Hall is, help me understand what's happening here.
And I can't describe the excitement I have. I'm in my fourth season now, and I can just see this being like, I feel like some Seinfeld episode that's happening. It's like, I can't predict it. And so, I'm excited about what's going to happen next. But it starts this Thursday, it's six weeks and do recordings of it so you can watch them again for the next six months until the next Town Hall starts. But I'm building a community. I want folks to come back and have fun in it twice a year. And the last thing I'll say about that is I see it as what I call touchstone coaching, which is come and touch about your ADHD twice a year, kind of run yourself through the ringer. Where are you? Ask questions and keep living life in a really healthy way.
Nikki Kinzer:
It's probably great that you do the same six topics too, because they need that reinforcement twice a year to check in with yourself.
James Ochoa:
I do. Exactly.
Nikki Kinzer:
If you were to do all different topics all the time, I think it'd be really overwhelming. So good job, James Ochoa.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, James Ochoa.
James Ochoa:
It feels fun. And we'll see where we are in season 40.
Nikki Kinzer:
Love it.
James Ochoa:
Which will be someday. I'll be 85 and I'll still be...
Nikki Kinzer:
All right, yeah.
Pete Wright:
Well, I already teased it, so give me the update on the book. When do I get the book?
James Ochoa:
So, you get the first, the exclusive on these pieces. So, I'm writing the book this summer. Okay. We're writing twice a week, four hours at a time. I'm going out to my writing coaching editor's house, Robin, and we are just getting lost in writing about ADHD storms. You have no idea what it's like to write about these things. And so, here's a telling fact. This is where you'll get little teasers going forward. I would get physically nauseous when I was reading through all this we were writing about because it's just like, "Ah, I can see it." And so, we've come up with, we've finally got them paired down into a group that we think is going to be manageable. We're writing actively about the storms, but there's going to be resourcing in the book.
But there's also going to be the ideas of what does shiny mean? Shiny is positive, shiny is negative. Shiny is a process with which we chase after things and we normalize it and updates on mindfulness, updates on my perspective on ADD. But it's proving to be as intriguing to write as the first book was. I was scoping as early as next fall. I think it could be a year from there. I hope not longer, but it's going to take as long as it takes. I will be happy to come on here and give you all updates as we go. I'll give you a little tidbit.
Nikki Kinzer:
Absolutely.
Pete Wright:
We shall begin the breath holding.
James Ochoa:
But it's in process, Pete. It really is. And the last thing I'll say is it's actually turned out to be, I didn't think I had a second book in me because I wasn't sure there was a need after opening up the chasm of mental and emotional stress. As it turns out, talking about the storms and how they affect career and relationships and the long-term nature of working within them, it's going to be as if not more important than just opening up the space of how the emotional and mental stress happens.
So, it's like one of those strange spaces. And again, I'm like, "Okay, we will get through this. It'll happen." And I will continue to give you all exclusive updates on that. I love being able to come here and talk about it. So, thank you for asking.
Nikki Kinzer:
Great.
Pete Wright:
Well, we appreciate you so much, James.
Nikki Kinzer:
We look forward to it.
James Ochoa:
Absolutely.
Pete Wright:
For sure, for sure.
James Ochoa:
I had so much fun.
Pete Wright:
Where do you want to send people?
James Ochoa:
jamesochoa.com. It's the easiest place to get to. Done a little repurposing of the website so it's easy to navigate. Actually, had my son, Jules. You know Jules?
Pete Wright:
We do.
James Ochoa:
He did a little UX research on my website for me, so it makes it a little easier for people to get around.
Pete Wright:
Outstanding, jamesochoa.com. Link in the show notes to all the goodies we've talked about today. As always, James, you're fantastic.
James Ochoa:
So much fun.
Pete Wright:
Thanks for being here, buddy.
James Ochoa:
Thank you.
Pete Wright:
And of course, we appreciate all of you hanging out watching this show in the livestream. If you are a Patreon member and those of you listening to the show, wherever you find your podcast, we appreciate you too. Thanks for downloading and listening and thank you for your time and your attention. Don't forget, if you have something to contribute to this conversation, we're heading over to the show talk channel in our Discord server. And you can join us right there by becoming one of those patrons at a deluxe level or better, patreon.com/theadhdpodcast. On behalf of Nikki Kinzer and James Ochoa, I'm Pete Wright, and we'll see you right back here next week on Taking Control, the ADHD podcast.
